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Final Burn Neo => FBN Development => Topic started by: 9.95 on February 24, 2010, 03:58:38 PM
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iq_132 and Barry Harris,
I'm here because the Mortal Kombat Community really needs your help. We currently only have MAME and the less than stellar SNES/Genesis versions which can emulate our games. MAME is passable, but still has alot of hiccups and problems. With Final Burn Alpha becoming one of the single best emulators available, and better than MAME in many ways, we believe that if you could emulate the Wolf Unit Driver, that FBA would run MK games far better than MAME.
To see UMK3 running on 2df/supercade would just be unbelievable.
Is it even possible? If so, what can the MK Community do to help? Thanks in advance to the both of you.
- 9.95
ClassicMK.com
Ultimatemk.com
Mortalkombatempires.com
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I for one know that there are plenty of players around that would love to see this happen. Currently the only means of playing MK requires players to either buy two consoles (PS3 and 360), or be forced to play on mame where there are several problems on any emulator that you choose. (Sound distortion, inability to access complete character roster easily, inefficient use of the roms which causes slowdown).
At this point, people basically have to pay hundreds of dollars for games they already own, or choose which problem they can tolerate, and it divides the community. Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 (the MK game with the largest scene), has also been taken off of the list of games for Xbox Live Marketplace due to an "evolving copyright". The end result is, we are stuck with Mame32k 0.64 until there is something that can fully support it. There are definitely plenty of players that would enjoy this solution if you are willing to help the MK community, and bring a lot of players to your great service, which we would love to be a part of.
As 9.95 said, I am also willing to help where ever I can.
-ScheissNussen
ClassicMK.com
Ultimatemk.com
Mortalkombatempires.com
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It would be great to see this happen! Playing UMK3 on MAME or XBL just doesn't do the game justice.
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Agreed.
I support this cause. :biggrin:
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I support this, would be real badass if this can happen
classicmk.com
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Agreed! :cool:
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I support this too! :cool:
MK needs FBA, I know people would like to play it on GGPO.
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I support this to. Lets get MK on an emulator capable of doing it justice.
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Please do it.
UMK3 has a great fanbase and this will only help it to grow and be stronger.
Supported.
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This would be awesome.
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That would be really awsome if u could play mk1 mk2 mk3 umk3 on 2df and ggpo. so yh plz this would be really good for the mk community
Classicmk.com
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I support this as well!!!
This would be huge for the MK community. UMK3 needs it too.
We want MK1, MKII, UMK3 & MK4!! Please help us!!!
- Tim Static
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please help. The MK community is suffering and we need a resolution and this is it!!!
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Agreed.
I support this cause :biggrin:
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I too am a supporter of the cause.
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I support this Idea. Please.. umk3 needs this!!! GGPO and 2df!
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Yes, add some MK. We need the Wolf Unit Driver. Help us out.
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I am Roll Tide and I approve this message!!
thanks in advance!
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I've been waiting a good 8 years or so for MK to be played on Final Burn because MAME's graphical and audio emulation glitches were always so bothersome and I felt Final Burn could do it better. It would also benefit from the better netplay support, I'd really like to see this happen.
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I am supporting this cause!!!
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I support this as well. This would be awesome.
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It would be great to see this happen.
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I support this, MK needs helps more than any other franchise that is 2-D. Any help from NeoSource would be greatly appreciated.
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I support this effort to get MK on Final Burn Alpha. As mentioned above, there are a few issues/glitches with the MK games on MAME, but the one that takes the cake is the lack of sort of playability on MK4. I would love to see this 100% emulated someday soon :)
If you guys are able to help us get the arcade franchise (MK, MKII, MK3, UMK3 and MK4) going with FBA - it'd be awesome, plus it would help out greatly with the online play with these great games.
classicmk.com
ultimatemk.com
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The MK community is getting somewhere. Solo supports MK on FBA!!!!!
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I will also support this cause, anything for MORTAL KOMBAT!!!!!!!!!!! :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
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This thread has my support
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I totally agree here.
PLEASE add Mortal Kombat to the lineup!
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We need this,,, support from me
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I also support this thread, that would be awsome.
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Agreed 100%
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I also agree, please help get this done.
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From an MK2 player, I whole-heartedly agree with this. Please back the MK games with your system.
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I fully support this cause!
ClassicMK.com
UltimateMK.com
MortalKombatEmpires.com
Thank you!
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cosign! do eeeeet!
mk is still alive and kickin'!
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i would love to see this
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Please do the world a favor and put MK1, MK2, UMK3 and MK4 on here!
There is huge support for these games and they really are great games with extreme high level potential!
www.classicmk.com
www.ultimatemk.com
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yea yeah yeah..... i support the cause :eek:
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Agreed 100%
This.
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The Entire community from MKU and myself support this, a lot of MK players would appreciate it if u guys make it possible.
If there's something I can do to make this possible please contact me
Thanks,
Gerchap
MortalKombatUnited.com
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Absolutely must have this happen. Old school MK and its dedicated fanbase must remain immortal! :biggrin:
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would love for this to happen..
make it so...
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I support this cause, get it on ggpo!
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I registered just to reply to this. Please..Make it happen!
-RoGE
Mortalkombatunited.com
MortalKombatempires.com
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Hell yea The MK community needs to be kept strong! I'm 100% behind this, lets get it goin!!
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i agree %100. please do that...TNX
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i'm down with that, paying $300 for a 360 just aint in my budget right now.
please do what y'all can with the MAC
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I am a supporter of the idea as well and I hope that this project is going to become a reality at some point.
Best regards,
Simon.
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I would really love to see this happen!
www.MortalKombatUnited.com
Now with 100% less Mippin!
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I definitely would want this to happen.
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I support this
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Supported, as it finally allows MK community to play at GGPO/Supercade, modern netplay services which are 10 times better than ancient MAME+kaillera recipe. Aside of better netcode, they allow to find competition easier (without need of browsing several hundreds of kaillera servers, or, in P2P kailler case, including every player to your MSN for contact purposes.
Right now all the fighting games supported by FBA have great netplay service provided for them, and most old 2D fightings are present, while its MK and KI series that feel like outcasts, and MK games have a big scene, so alot of people will be grateful if you make FBA support MK games.
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MK FOR LIFE BITCHES.... I 100% support this.....
>>> www.MortalKombatUnited.com <<<
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Guys - thanks for the effort you're putting in.
Unfortunately, supporting Mortal Kombat and sequels in FBA is far from trivial. It requires support for several CPU cores (some of which are unlike any currently in FBA), and support for all sorts of other things such as timers and new sound cores. We're not shy of taking on big tasks but none of us are particuarly big fans of the MK series so I really wouldn't hold your breath waiting for a driver. That's not to say never - it's just very unlikely!
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Treble... thank you so much for the answer. We greatly appreciate it. I'm aware that you guys may not have been big MK fans so there's very little in it for you, but what can we do to help? I also realize that the MK drivers use a fairly unique system and that it can be a daunting task.
If there is anything we can do to help, though, please let us know.. we have some talented people who may be capable of helping, plus, we all believe, whole heartedly, that adding the MK series to your lineup of games would continue to advance FBA as the premeir emulator, far superior to MAME. It already runs so much more efficiently, and MK does have such a rich history with regards to 2d Fighting games, that it would really be great, for everyone, to finally have the MK series emulated the proper way.
Again, if there's anything we can do to help, please tell us.
-Phil
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Yeah, if you need any help with anything regarding this, I as well as others could help. Not exactly sure what can be done, but the offer is there.
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This is a great idea. I would love to see this done, if possible.
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Mortal Kombat cannot be ignored, please let this epic game survive with this new Wolf Unit Driver!!!
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let's do it.
"i'm gamemk and i approve this message."
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This would be sweet! :)
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I don't often post here but just wanted to say that I'm impressed with the passionate support you guys are giving.
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Unfortunately, supporting Mortal Kombat and sequels in FBA is far from trivial. It requires support for several CPU cores (some of which are unlike any currently in FBA), and support for all sorts of other things such as timers and new sound cores. We're not shy of taking on big tasks but none of us are particuarly big fans of the MK series so I really wouldn't hold your breath waiting for a driver. That's not to say never - it's just very unlikely!
I'm sure that others like myself would be willing to donate to the cause. I know something like this is a huge daunting task when you already have a successful emulator, but you can make it so much better by adding a whole new community to it!
You have my support. MK for life.
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I'm sure that others like myself would be willing to donate to the cause. I know something like this is a huge daunting task when you already have a successful emulator, but you can make it so much better by adding a whole new community to it!
You have my support. MK for life.
Konqrr, you took the words out of my mouth. I'm sure that we could certainly get players to donate to this cause to make it worth your time to add MK to FBA.
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this would be sick.
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This goes to the big guys from here:
As for right now this can't be possible right,
If it has to do with financial issues let me know, I can donate and set up a donation program at my Site
Contact me if this makes sense
Thanks,
Gerchap
MoralKombatUnited.com
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I for one know that there are plenty of players around that would love to see this happen. Currently the only means of playing MK requires players to either buy two consoles (PS3 and 360), or be forced to play on mame where there are several problems on any emulator that you choose. (Sound distortion, inability to access complete character roster easily, inefficient use of the roms which causes slowdown).
I concur. The MK Kommunity is vast and could use the ability to play via GGPO. There are a great deal of players out there who are frustrated due to the above mentioned issues and more which plague the attempts to play a stable match online. We've seen what great leaps have been made with other klassik 2d fighters being emulated via FBA and played on GGPO/2df. We would like to enter the fold.
If there is anything we can do to help facilitate this development and a port of the Wolf Unit code to FBA, please let me/us know. I work for a software development house and can offer some very powerful hardware for you guys to build on. Consider it a donation to your project.
-styroteqe
:biggrin:
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I will also discuss with Shock and Scheisse, as well as Storms the possibility of setting up donation funds on Ultimatemk.com, Classicmk.com, and Mortalkombatempires.com in order to help make the time worth your while.
-Phil
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I will also discuss with Shock and Scheisse, as well as Storms the possibility of setting up donation funds on Ultimatemk.com, Classicmk.com, and Mortalkombatempires.com in order to help make the time worth your while.
-Phil
I would never accept donations for my time. It is unfair to all those who have worked on MAME (which would be used as a reference) and I also don't want the pressure of having to deliver results (I have a job and a young family - that keeps me busy enough!). It is also unfair on anyone who has worked on FBA in the past.
You should probably not be expecting a magic boost in speed over MAME should an FBA driver exist. We would use the cores from MAME to get it up and running. If it's slow it's because it is demanding - porting it to FBA would not change that.
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I would never accept donations for my time. It is unfair to all those who have worked on MAME (which would be used as a reference) and I also don't want the pressure of having to deliver results (I have a job and a young family - that keeps me busy enough!). It is also unfair on anyone who has worked on FBA in the past.
You should probably not be expecting a magic boost in speed over MAME should an FBA driver exist. We would use the cores from MAME to get it up and running. If it's slow it's because it is demanding - porting it to FBA would not change that.
The game runs, speed wise, just fine... but there are just somethings that aren't the greatest with MAME in general, such as being so user-unfriendly and so bad regarding netplay with kaillera. I think that one of the biggest things that all of us are so interested in, is seeing it get supported by FBA so that it would have better netplay via 2df/supercade and GGPO. Currently, p2p kaillera is not the best, its better than normal kaillera, but there are so many problems, whereas 2df/supercade and GGPO are so user friendly and the netplay is so fast and so smooth that it's very attractive to anyone who uses them... including MK players.
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This thread is hilarious....
If MK were added to FBA it would be using MAME's cores, the game is entirely driven by the CPU + framebuffer and it would run *exactly* the same speed as it does in MAME using the same cores. FBAs video functions etc. are faster, but MK wouldn't be using them as the game(s) aren't tile or sprite based.
Just how many accounts do you need to create to beg for something?.... I strongly suspect there are other reasons behind this, maybe some see FBAs licensing as more lax, but in reality if they just copy cores directly from MAME they're subject to the MAME license anyway unless special permission is granted.
Don't the FBA dev team also consider all these netplay solutions you mention illegal, as most of them are only providing binaries and no source? you're not going to get much support here if that's the case, as I believe that was mentioned in other posts. MAME is hostile to netplay for a reason, most of the people developing these 'solutions' seem to think they're above any licenseing terms (in the name of anti-cheating), and implement things as such god-awful hacks they're not worth considering. If somebody does it RIGHT I'm sure MAME will get some form of netplay which doesn't make it one giant security risk. That said there may still be objections to it because such things do attract a very annoying obsessive 'fan-boi' like usergroup, I honestly can't think of any examples to show you what I mean by that, but I'm sure you can find some.
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If MK were added to FBA it would be using MAME's cores, the game is entirely driven by the CPU + framebuffer and it would run *exactly* the same speed as it does in MAME using the same cores. FBAs video functions etc. are faster, but MK wouldn't be using them as the game(s) aren't tile or sprite based.
Agreed. Though I imagine fba will be slightly faster given less overhead. Though, I'm fairly certain they aren't worried about speed as much as the fact that the only way they can play it online right now is with a decrepit old MAME build with kaillera.
Just how many accounts do you need to create to beg for something?.... I strongly suspect there are other reasons behind this, maybe some see FBAs licensing as more lax,
It is in really only more lax one way -- we allow linking to closed-source dlls. Other than that, our license is very similar to MAME's in what it requires.
but in reality if they just copy cores directly from MAME they're subject to the MAME license anyway unless special permission is granted.
Which we will be seeking sooner rather than later.
Don't the FBA dev team also consider all these netplay solutions you mention illegal, as most of them are only providing binaries and no source? you're not going to get much support here if that's the case, as I believe that was mentioned in other posts. MAME is hostile to netplay for a reason, most of the people developing these 'solutions' seem to think they're above any licenseing terms (in the name of anti-cheating), and implement things as such god-awful hacks they're not worth considering.
I honestly have never heard of 2df, but I imagine you are correct. GPPO, up until last week was off-limits for discussion here as well. They have agreed to release their sources to their fba build. We did not ask them to release the sources to their closed-source dlls.
If somebody does it RIGHT I'm sure MAME will get some form of netplay which doesn't make it one giant security risk.
I have suspicions about that? Your own comment about "fanbois" and the like is exactly why I don't see anyone on the MAMEdev team being willing to put any sort of effort into seeing a netplay option.
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Agreed. Though I imagine fba will be slightly faster given less overhead. Though, I'm fairly certain they aren't worried about speed as much as the fact that the only way they can play it online right now is with a decrepit old MAME build with kaillera.
It is in really only more lax one way -- we allow linking to closed-source dlls. Other than that, our license is very similar to MAME's in what it requires.
Which we will be seeking sooner rather than later.
I honestly have never heard of 2df, but I imagine you are correct. GPPO, up until last week was off-limits for discussion here as well. They have agreed to release their sources to their fba build. We did not ask them to release the sources to their closed-source dlls.
I have suspicions about that? Your own comment about "fanbois" and the like is exactly why I don't see anyone on the MAMEdev team being willing to put any sort of effort into seeing a netplay option.
Nobody on the team is likely to put in any effort, it's not a primary concern, however if an external solution was available which was compatible, and implemented properly then I imagine it would be considered.
I haven't studied the FBA license, but the key thing about the MAME one is the no-commerical use clause, otherwise it's basically the BSD license. The no-commercial use clause is rather important tho, and a fair few devs (especially ones behind the sound cores like Jarek) have in no uncertain terms stated that they don't want their code used in any commercial product, or used in a commercial way. I share the same opinion, and unless it's a request from the original manufacturer I don't expect nor want any code I've written, nor code derived from that being used for commercial purposes.
The reason I'm suspicious is because there was a thread on another forum recently along similar lines where somebody was trying to get people to port drivers to other things like Raine and FBA in order to avoid the MAME no-commercial clause (MK was mentioned in that too). If this was to become the norm I imagine you'd end up with various demands to remove all MAME-sourced code from FBA, or ensure you were fully license compliant which would basically mean adopting the MAME license (or seek the individual authors of each piece of MAME code you used and get them to agree to relicence it for you). The CPS3 driver for example is heavily derived from my code, to the point of it having the same comments, so I don't think there is much of a legal argument as to where it came from ;-) The only reason nobody has done this so far is because nobody on the team feels like being an asshole to a project which is both interesting and gives people an alternative to use and learn with.
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Agreed. Though I imagine fba will be slightly faster given less overhead. Though, I'm fairly certain they aren't worried about speed as much as the fact that the only way they can play it online right now is with a decrepit old MAME build with kaillera.
It is in really only more lax one way -- we allow linking to closed-source dlls. Other than that, our license is very similar to MAME's in what it requires.
Which we will be seeking sooner rather than later.
I honestly have never heard of 2df, but I imagine you are correct. GPPO, up until last week was off-limits for discussion here as well. They have agreed to release their sources to their fba build. We did not ask them to release the sources to their closed-source dlls.
I have suspicions about that? Your own comment about "fanbois" and the like is exactly why I don't see anyone on the MAMEdev team being willing to put any sort of effort into seeing a netplay option.
The license is very similar - and commerical use is strictly prohibited. As iq said the main difference is in allowing linking to non-emulation related dlls, eg, netplay libs. The way I see it, allowing this takes the netplay crowd away from MAME to some extent.
We have been actively seeking license compliance recently. FBA Shuffle is apparently dead, GGPO has released their code (bar the netplay DLL). I had never heard of 2df either, although I did look into more on Friday and I will be contacting them when I look into it further.
If MAMEdev preferred, I personally have no objection to changing the dll policy to just dlls we give permission to (and I don't mind contacting MAMEdev to ask about obtaining permission on a dll basis either). I wouldn't want to completely remove dll linking as I do think it does some good taking some (most?) netplay away from MAME. That said if the only way the project could survive was to adopt the MAME license then it is something we would more than likely accept and adhere too.
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The license is very similar - and commerical use is strictly prohibited. As iq said the main difference is in allowing linking to non-emulation related dlls, eg, netplay libs. The way I see it, allowing this takes the netplay crowd away from MAME to some extent.
We have been actively seeking license compliance recently. FBA Shuffle is apparently dead, GGPO has released their code (bar the netplay DLL). I had never heard of 2df either, although I did look into more on Friday and I will be contacting them when I look into it further.
If MAMEdev preferred, I personally have no objection to changing the dll policy to just dlls we give permission to (and I don't mind contacting MAMEdev to ask about obtaining permission on a dll basis either). I wouldn't want to completely remove dll linking as I do think it does some good taking some (most?) netplay away from MAME. That said if the only way the project could survive was to adopt the MAME license then it is something we would more than likely accept and adhere too.
That's alright then, all I can say is that from a legal point of view if you're using MAME code you should technically also be using the MAME license.
Aaron himself isn't that big on the no-closed DLLs approach but it has a few advantages, including preventing people from writing closed source emulation cores, and linking them with the project, or closed-source DRM based 'protection' schemes and offering ROMs complete with versions of MAME we can't support. It also helps keep the code multi-platform, as closed libs are by their nature often windows-only (and if you combine this with the previous point, would not be good for the project at all). It's not only an anti-netplay thing, it's about keeping MAME open and ensuring the developers always have access to all the code, and won't become tied to something which can't be developed, can't be debugged, can't be fixed, and can't be ported. (A critical security vulnerability in something like a netplay lib would become a critical vulnerability in MAME beyond the developers control)
That's the reasoning why I've always insisted such clauses are a good thing, and for a project where the primary goal is documentation and everything benig open I feel it's important to stick to it.
I doubt anybody is going to force you to adopt the license, because as I said the team generally aren't going to be assholes about such things as long as the code isn't being abused, but from a legal point of view you should almost certainly be using the MAME license if you're using MAME code or code which has been adapted from MAME code, which you are.
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That's alright then, all I can say is that from a legal point of view if you're using MAME code you should technically also be using the MAME license.
Aaron himself isn't that big on the no-closed DLLs approach but it has a few advantages, including preventing people from writing closed source emulation cores, and linking them with the project, or closed-source DRM based 'protection' schemes and offering ROMs complete with versions of MAME we can't support. It also helps keep the code multi-platform, as closed libs are by their nature often windows-only (and if you combine this with the previous point, would not be good for the project at all). It's not only an anti-netplay thing, it's about keeping MAME open and ensuring the developers always have access to all the code, and won't become tied to something which can't be developed, can't be debugged, can't be fixed, and can't be ported. (A critical security vulnerability in something like a netplay lib would become a critical vulnerability in MAME beyond the developers control)
That's the reasoning why I've always insisted such clauses are a good thing, and for a project where the primary goal is documentation and everything benig open I feel it's important to stick to it.
I doubt anybody is going to force you to adopt the license, because as I said the team generally aren't going to be assholes about such things as long as the code isn't being abused, but from a legal point of view you should almost certainly be using the MAME license if you're using MAME code or code which has been adapted from MAME code, which you are.
Agreed on all - that's why I deliberately said non-emulation dlls. Anything emulation related (CPU cores, etc.) should all be distributed as code if they are utilised by any FBA build. It would be grossly disrespectful in my opinion to not share such things with the community.
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Btw, 2DF Freeplay online service no longer passes under that name. It was renamed to Supercade
http://supercade.net/
and is different from 2DF in a sense (2DF used external client with built-in chat, pms, and had forum - while Supercade uses web-based interface instead of client, and lacks chat and forum - namely because those were heavily trolled on 2DF)
Its basically an alternative to GGPO, with many more games available but slower netcode I believe (still better than kaillera servers), and starting from Supercade, interface differs significantly from GGPO. Usually 2DF/Supercade FBA version used is more up to date than GGPO one; because of that users can map more than one button shortcut on 2DF/Supercade but not on GGPO (which forces keyboard players to use external programs to achieve same effect on GGPO).
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Hey guys, I've been away all weekend at a major tournament in Philadelphia, Winter Brawl 4. It was an amazing tournament, and we had UMK3, MK2, SFA2, SFA3, and Killer Instinct there. SF4, Blazblue, Guilty Gear AC, Melty Blood Actress Again, SFIII 3rd Strike, Tekken 6, Dead or Alive 4, Marvel Vs. Capcom 2, and other games were also played as well.
Anyway, just a few things I want to say based on what I've read.
Haze there are no duplicate accounts here as far as I know. I'm a moderator on 3 different, well respected Mortal Kombat forums, and I know each and every member that has posted in this thread. If you doubt that, please go to:
www.ultimatemk.com
www.classicmk.com
www.mortalkombatempires.com
there are also members from www.mortalkombatunited.com posting here as well. Please feel free to log onto any of those forums and check each member to be sure that they are all uniquely different people who all post on these forums. This is not "begging" for MK to be added to FBA...this is an entire community of players who sees how good an emulator is and is supporting the emulator, and attempting to show support to it's devs, that we would love to see our game of choice added to their emulator. Again, I encourage you to check the above mentioned forums and see that a thread exists in each of them encouraging the members to support this idea here and show the devs that we support them(and are willing to help in any way possible) as well.
iq and Treble - I'm hoping that you two(along with all the other FBA devs) have seen that the MK community is very serious about wanting to see MK on your emulator. I've read what has been shared between you and Haze, and I'm actually kind of hopeful that maybe it will be ok for code to be shared and you can use the code from MAME(with permission of course so there's no problem or conflict) in order to port even more games(including MK games...LOL) to FBA. Please keep us informed on what's happening and where this is or may be going!
-Phil
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I don't often post here but just wanted to say that I'm impressed with the passionate support you guys are giving.
I completely missed this... and thank you... we really appreciate it.
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I was also confused about the comment of making accounts to beg for this, it totally takes the thread down the wrong path. Everyone who has posted here and more is interested in a better way. If it can't be done, it can't be done, if you don't want to do it, that's another story but still your choice. I've been an avid fan of MAME since 2000 and FB since 2001 or 2002, and I know that CPS2 games run better on FB than MAME, everything from input response to frame rate. We were just looking for a better option.
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Hey guys, I've been away all weekend at a major tournament in Philadelphia, Winter Brawl 4. It was an amazing tournament, and we had UMK3, MK2, SFA2, SFA3, and Killer Instinct there. SF4, Blazblue, Guilty Gear AC, Melty Blood Actress Again, SFIII 3rd Strike, Tekken 6, Dead or Alive 4, Marvel Vs. Capcom 2, and other games were also played as well.
Anyway, just a few things I want to say based on what I've read.
Haze there are no duplicate accounts here as far as I know. I'm a moderator on 3 different, well respected Mortal Kombat forums, and I know each and every member that has posted in this thread. If you doubt that, please go to:
www.ultimatemk.com
www.classicmk.com
www.mortalkombatempires.com
there are also members from www.mortalkombatunited.com posting here as well. Please feel free to log onto any of those forums and check each member to be sure that they are all uniquely different people who all post on these forums. This is not "begging" for MK to be added to FBA...this is an entire community of players who sees how good an emulator is and is supporting the emulator, and attempting to show support to it's devs, that we would love to see our game of choice added to their emulator. Again, I encourage you to check the above mentioned forums and see that a thread exists in each of them encouraging the members to support this idea here and show the devs that we support them(and are willing to help in any way possible) as well.
iq and Treble - I'm hoping that you two(along with all the other FBA devs) have seen that the MK community is very serious about wanting to see MK on your emulator. I've read what has been shared between you and Haze, and I'm actually kind of hopeful that maybe it will be ok for code to be shared and you can use the code from MAME(with permission of course so there's no problem or conflict) in order to port even more games(including MK games...LOL) to FBA. Please keep us informed on what's happening and where this is or may be going!
-Phil
From my point-of-view it doesn't matter if we have permission or not, I don't have the time or motivation to work on a Mortal Kombat driver for FBA. Not the answer you want but I can only be honest.
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From my point-of-view it doesn't matter if we have permission or not, I don't have the time or motivation to work on a Mortal Kombat driver for FBA. Not the answer you want but I can only be honest.
I'd rather you be honest then to lead us on and let us chase something. I appreciate the honesty. Hopefully in the future you won't forget us and you'll eventually work on the driver as we really would like to see it in FBA. Hopefully we'll have an external person who may be able to help you with it, or possibly another FBA dev who likes MK and might be motivated to help with the driver.
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I appreciate it as well, thank you for your time.
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Haze there are no duplicate accounts here as far as I know. I'm a moderator on 3 different, well respected Mortal Kombat forums, and I know each and every member that has posted in this thread. If you doubt that, please go to:
www.ultimatemk.com
www.classicmk.com
www.mortalkombatempires.com
there are also members from www.mortalkombatunited.com posting here as well. Please feel free to log onto any of those forums and check each member to be sure that they are all uniquely different people who all post on these forums. This is not "begging" for MK to be added to FBA...this is an entire community of players who sees how good an emulator is and is supporting the emulator, and attempting to show support to it's devs, that we would love to see our game of choice added to their emulator. Again, I encourage you to check the above mentioned forums and see that a thread exists in each of them encouraging the members to support this idea here and show the devs that we support them(and are willing to help in any way possible) as well.
Ok, I acknowledge that it's more than one person, but it comes across as more of an invasion than people supporting an idea ;-) Really, one post about it, with a link to the forums, showing why people would appreciate it would have been fine. Getting multiple people to create accounts just to post here and ask for it looks closer to spamming and thread-bumping for attention ;-)
As I and others have said tho, FBA currently contains none of the components required for the MK series to work (aside from the Y unit versions of the original which had a more basic sound setup) The TMS and ADSP series of chips which do the bulk fo the work are rather complex to emulate, and not easy to understand if you're more familiar with traditional CPUs. I'm not even sure the MAME code would slot into FBA easily without some significant changes to FBA.
The problem is, there are an awful lot of things which CAN be emulated under FBA right now, using the cores that already exist and these targets are probably more rewarding for the developers than simply porting over more CPU cores from MAME where your scope for performance benefits is much lower. I don't know if you're familiar with history, but if you go back to the days when 'EmuViews' was active, there would be rumours of a new 'faster' MK emulator every day of the week (at a time when the best PC on the market struggled to run MK1 at 30fps) In the end, none were released, and PC hardware caught up with the emulation, the reason being simply that the chips are a real pain to emulate in the first place, nevermind quickly. The people developing the standalone alternatives were finding that their framerate was the same, or sometimes worse than MAME.
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MK Community needs the Wolf Unit. Thanks.
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MK Community needs the Wolf Unit. Thanks.
I need spaghetti. How are you going to resolve this?
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LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!
Obviously the lot of you didn't read *THIS THREAD* (http://neo-source.com/index.php?topic=1237.0)
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The game runs, speed wise, just fine... but there are just somethings that aren't the greatest with MAME in general, such as being so user-unfriendly and so bad regarding netplay with kaillera. I think that one of the biggest things that all of us are so interested in, is seeing it get supported by FBA so that it would have better netplay via 2df/supercade and GGPO. Currently, p2p kaillera is not the best, its better than normal kaillera, but there are so many problems, whereas 2df/supercade and GGPO are so user friendly and the netplay is so fast and so smooth that it's very attractive to anyone who uses them... including MK players.
9.9, even if the MK games were supported(will never happen but let's say hypothetically), that does not mean Ponder would automatically add them to GGPO. Ponder adds games when he wants and it is up to him which games he adds. Just look at what happened a couple days ago...Ponder added Samurai Shodown IV. A game no one thought would get added. Everyone assumed it would be SSVsp but it wasn't. Not even guaranteed he will ever add SSVsp! He probably just added it because he likes the game and there's nothing wrong with that.
If Ponder is someone who hates the Mortal Kombat games, then I'd say the chances of him deciding to add them to ggpo would be slim *if* this was an alternative universe they were added to FBA. So that's even DOUBLE the reason not to get your hopes up LOL!
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die hard mk fan here. I support and will donate for the cause.
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die hard mk fan here. I support and will donate for the cause.
sorry brah, but don't hold your breath. It never EVER going to happen. Ever! I'm willing to bet my ******** on it.
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sorry brah, but don't hold your breath. It never EVER going to happen. Ever! I'm willing to bet my ******** on it.
Yeah I think there's about as much chance of them integrating the Supermodel code Ville posted on his WIP page, and emulating Model 3 as there is of them porting the MK driver. (and it's probably a similar amount of work...)
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Yeah I think there's about as much chance of them integrating the Supermodel code Ville posted on his WIP page, and emulating Model 3 as there is of them porting the MK driver. (and it's probably a similar amount of work...)
Hehe, good one.
By the way Haze, someone asked me to ask you this. It's more simply a hypothetical question:
He wants to know since you are one of the mame devs and have access to the source code, are you *CAPABLE* of writing modification code that would implement built in and much improved netcode, so that GGPO could be implemented easily into it? Or is something completely out of your league?
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Hehe, good one.
By the way Haze, someone asked me to ask you this. It's more simply a hypothetical question:
He wants to know since you are one of the mame devs and have access to the source code, are you *CAPABLE* of writing modification code that would implement built in and much improved netcode, so that GGPO could be implemented easily into it? Or is something completely out of your league?
I've done network code for other projects, but honestly, I don't have the slightest clue what it would involve in MAME, I've never looked at that side of the code base, and I don't plan on looking at that side of the code base. Again, if it were to be done it should be done properly from scratch and within the license tho, not bolting on incompatible license or closed libs, which is a completely different task.
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modification code that would implement built in and much improved netcode
A guy was working on this recently at mameworld:
http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=224376&page=2&view=expanded&sb=5&o=&vc=1
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If Ponder is someone who hates the Mortal Kombat games, then I'd say the chances of him deciding to add them to ggpo would be slim
FYI, I don't hate Mortal Kombat.
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FYI, I don't hate Mortal Kombat.
cool.
Well, at least half of the problem is hypothetically solved :p
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FYI, I don't hate Mortal Kombat.
Does that mean we may see ggpo netcode in the upcoming MK Arcade Kollection? :biggrin: :cool:
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Please Haze ,Treble Winner, and the rest. Give me a chance to revive things like that via online http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzVLdbPi-4Q (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzVLdbPi-4Q) I know that all we together can achieve that.
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do you realize what your doing everytime you ask about mk for fbl?
read my sig.
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and the question / need is even less relevant now than it was 2 years ago.
Fast PCs are even cheaper, and ClientServerMAME / MameHub are just fine and approved by Mamedev.
MK won't be magically faster in FBA even if they copy the code across.
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and the question / need is even less relevant now than it was 2 years ago.
Fast PCs are even cheaper, and ClientServerMAME / MameHub are just fine and approved by Mamedev.
MK won't be magically faster in FBA even if they copy the code across.
Yeah but you're forgetting CSMAME doesn't use the input rollback technology that Ponder uses in ggpo. Hence the reason it's a ghost town. But then again, Ponder appears to have 100% stopped giving even a dingleberry of a sh** about ggpo at this point, so I guess it's all relative.
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I'm not forgetting, I just couldn't give a crap about netplay enough to have even downloaded it.
All I'm saying is that you have a 100% clean non license violating solution to netplay tied to MAME that people are welcome and in a position to improve and work on rather than some of the dodgy locked up gross hack solutions that are already out there.
The CSMame code might even find its way into the baseline MAME one day.
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Stop bothering the FBA devs about it.
If you want Wolf Unit - take the MAME 0.78 (2003) libretro core and use that on any one of the RetroArch platform ports. Problem solved. That way iq_132 and others don't have to be heckled into doing sh** they clearly don't feel like doing.
Oh and BTW - RetroArch has rollback (ie. GGPO) peer-to-peer netplay - so there you go.
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Stop bothering the FBA devs about it.
If you want Wolf Unit - take the MAME 0.78 (2003) libretro core and use that on any one of the RetroArch platform ports. Problem solved. That way iq_132 and others don't have to be heckled into doing sh** they clearly don't feel like doing.
Oh and BTW - RetroArch has rollback (ie. GGPO) peer-to-peer netplay - so there you go.
Wait...even the PC version? And does it allow spectating?
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Wait...even the PC version? And does it allow spectating?
Yes, most libretro cores are multiplatform otherwise it's no good to us. MAME 0.78 is no exception. Runs fine on both x86 and x86_64.
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yeah but i cant figure out how to use mame core on retroarch. Seems that is it https://github.com/libretro/mame2003-libretro (https://github.com/libretro/mame2003-libretro) but retroarch uses dll for cores and there is not dll in that link. If someone knows something please post
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yeah but i cant figure out how to use mame core on retroarch. Seems that is it https://github.com/libretro/mame2003-libretro (https://github.com/libretro/mame2003-libretro) but retroarch uses dll for cores and there is not dll in that link. If someone knows something please post
It is a source repository - meaning, you must take a compiler and compile the code. Then you'll get your DLL (for Windows).
Alternatively, wait until it gets added to RetroArch Win32's updater service.