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Final Burn Neo => FBN Discussion => Topic started by: AtTheGates on November 17, 2009, 07:33:52 PM
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hi,
when i'm on windows 7, pretty much all games i try on the newest FBA build (029707, but happens with all the old ones as well) have frameskip. This might not be easily recognized by most people - i play fighting games, so i'm pretty sure. the emulator runs perfectly under XP, which i run on the same pc. my machine is strong enough (quad core, 4 gig ram, geforce 8800gt), so performance shouldnt be the problem.
is there any reliable way to fix this? so far i've played around with the blitters, changed from windowed to fullscreen, played around with resolutions and changed priority to "high" under misc. no success.
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Open up your task manager (right-click the start menu->start task manager->processes tab), click the "show processes from all users" button and play your game in windowed mode with that up in the background. It should tell you how much cpu, etc it is using (since you're using a Quad-core cpu, if fba is using more than 25% cpu [since it is only a single-threaded emulator], it won't run at full speed, which is quite strange). You may also find that another process (virus scanner?) is eating cpu cycles like mad.
You may also want to give updating your sound and video drivers a try as well as making sure your version of directx is the most up-to-date.
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it's at 1-3%. drivers are up to date, no virus scanner etc. running. it's definitely not the strain on the system, i suspect it must have something to do with refresh rate and how win7 handles it or something. keep in mind that i could play just fine on xp, got 2 OSes on this pc.
i know of other people who have the problem - well, in fact i know only one other person who used fba with win7, and he has the same problem.
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Try changing your power options to High Performance. CPU throttling seems to have an effect on performance.
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aren't those power settings for laptops? oô
anyway, i still don't think it's performance.
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I noticed the same hit going from XP to Vista.
The power plans are different post-Vista and the CPU enters power saving when idle. When using FBA the CPU is in low power until it needs to ramp up. I find the power state tends to fluctuate lots and I think this affects the skipping - I certainly know that changing it to High Performance (hence turning off CPU power saving) removes the issue altogether. The default setting is Balanced which has some pretty heavy CPU power saving.
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i switched it to high performance, makes absolutely no difference =(
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Weird issues you're having dude. I know it's probably a little crazy, but have you tried putting fba into compatibility mode?
It probably won't do shit, but it is worth a try. ^^
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still no success. i wish i knew more about how win7 treats programs like fba, things like refresh rate etc. my monitor is set to 60hz, and fba is using force 60fps, but even if i switch it off, it doesnt change anything.
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It is very strange man, I've been running 64-bit windows since it February and I've never had any issues with it slowing down -- (core 2 duo 1.8, geforce 8600 gt, 4gb of ram, etc).
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it's not a slow down per se - it's frame skip. certain frames are missing, it becomes really apparent when i try to do combos that involve visual timing, and no muscle memory (such as combos with jumps). missing frames means less time to react and just wrong signals in general, makes it harder to play =(
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I know it could seems obvious but..
did you try enabling triple buffering and vsync and disabling auto-frameskip?
Are the video drivers correctly installed?
For me, with 7, triple buffering makes the difference.
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no difference with triple buffering and v-synch, and yeah, video drivers are installed correctly =(
actually, v-synch and triple buf are known to cause some minor input lag, so even if it would fix the frameskip problem, i still couldn't play on win7.
on a side note, when i play street fighter IV in windowed mode, i also have frameskip - if i switch to fullscreen, its smooth. supports my theory that it's somehow related to windows 7 refresh rate / windowed mode, whatever. problem is, switching to fullscreen for fba doesn't fix the problem for me.
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no difference with triple buffering and v-synch, and yeah, video drivers are installed correctly =(
actually, v-synch and triple buf are known to cause some minor input lag, so even if it would fix the frameskip problem, i still couldn't play on win7.
on a side note, when i play street fighter IV in windowed mode, i also have frameskip - if i switch to fullscreen, its smooth. supports my theory that it's somehow related to windows 7 refresh rate / windowed mode, whatever. problem is, switching to fullscreen for fba doesn't fix the problem for me.
It's a known fact that the AERO interface slows down graphics-intensive applications, so fullscreen is always the better choice.
Anyway, try to switch the GUI from AERO to basic.
About the triple buffering lag, i play 3s at a good competitive local level and i can say the lag isn't noticeable.
Bye
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update: sf4 says 60fps even when it lags in windowed mode, which is imo another indicator that its related to windows.
will try disabling aero later.
aynway, about you not feeling lag, that's great, but jojo requires 1- and 2f links, so i do feel it. the problem with input lag is usually less of a combo problem and more of a reaction problem, since every frame of input lag effectively increases your reaction time (which is bad).
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disabled aero, didn't do anything. the nightmare continues =(
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Hi there AtTheGates, I have Win7 (x64) and I experience the strange frameskip in windowed mode as well, I always disable Auto Frameskip so its supposed to run at 60fps. The problem seems to be with high resolutions, normally I use 1680 x 1050 [32bit][60hz] and I could notice the issue, but when I lowered the desktop resolution a bit just to see what happened, the frame skipping went away, and if its there is not noticed. At least this is a temporary workaround until the real problem can be identified under Win7 :)
Another thing you could try if the problem persist is using the DirectX9 Experimental Blitter and see if this show improvements.
SeeYaa!
:biggrin:
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Hmm, it still works fine for me and my desktop resolution is 1920x1080. I usually use the D3D 7 blitter.
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Hmm, it still works fine for me and my desktop resolution is 1920x1080. I usually use the D3D 7 blitter.
Nice you're using 1080p! ^^ I would be using 1080p too but my LCD monitor supports up to 1680 x 1050 only :(
Maybe it has something to do with our video cards, I currently have an ATI Radeon HD 4650 (1gb), right now Im trying some configuration in the ATI catalyst panel and checking for updates as well :smilie:
SeeYaa!
:biggrin:
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I kept checking my system configuration (DirectX / Video drivers / etc) and after playing with the blitters I noticed that what happens its not Frameskipping, I concluded that Triple Buffer and Vsync doesn't work in windowed mode, except Vsync that does work in windowed mode if using the experimental DX9 blitter.
SeeYaa!
:biggrin:
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I'm using a 4670 so very similar. Looking to change to a 5670 when the price falls a bit (probably when nVidia gets there arses in gear!).
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I kept checking my system configuration (DirectX / Video drivers / etc) and after playing with the blitters I noticed that what happens its not Frameskipping, I concluded that Triple Buffer and Vsync doesn't work in windowed mode, except Vsync that does work in windowed mode if using the experimental DX9 blitter.
SeeYaa!
:biggrin:
Hi,
same problem here, vsync doesn't work correctly both windowed and fullscreen (iMac c2d 2.66GHz, ATI2600Pro).
Also a friend of mine has the same problem with nvidia graphics (9400).
I think the problem is FBA related because MAME vsync does work correctly.
Anyway thank you for this great emulator!
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I'm using a 4670 so very similar. Looking to change to a 5670 when the price falls a bit (probably when nVidia gets there arses in gear!).
Man that video card that you're planning to buy is incredible I verified the specs and its badass :D (now I want that one too LOL)
Btw, I found out how to force Triple Buffering (DirectX 9) running in windowed mode using a tool I found online called D3DOverrider, so atm using this tool and the Experimental DirectX9 blitter we can have VSync + Triple Buffering while on windowed mode
Of course there must be a way to implement the Triple Buffer in the Experimental blitter code so we don't have to use the D3DOverrider tool, but that will require doing some extra research :)
I attached the D3DOverrider tool (doesn't need installation)
SeeYaa!
:biggrin:
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Man that video card that you're planning to buy is incredible I verified the specs and its badass :D (now I want that one too LOL)
Btw, I found out how to force Triple Buffering (DirectX 9) running in windowed mode using a tool I found online called D3DOverrider, so atm using this tool and the Experimental DirectX9 blitter we can have VSync + Triple Buffering while on windowed mode
Of course there must be a way to implement the Triple Buffer in the Experimental blitter code so we don't have to use the D3DOverrider tool, but that will require doing some extra research :)
I attached the D3DOverrider tool (doesn't need installation)
SeeYaa!
:biggrin:
It's either that or a 5750 or 5770 if the price of the 5670 doesn't start falling soon. The value seems to be in the 57xx range at the moment but in a few months I expect that to change towards the 5670. The 4670 was always the value card and had low power requirements.
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hey everyone,
been a while since i posted.
i just did some testing with and without aero theme, street fighter IV windowed.
with aero theme = frameskip every couple of seconds (at really odd and slow intervals), most visible during camera movements
without aero = no problems.
i will now test FBA and see if i can feel any improvement.
edit: just tested FBA, both windowed and fullscreen, with and without vsynch and triple buffering. no improvement at all =(
edit2: by the way, i experience this the strongest when playing jojo's bizarre adventure (CPSIII). third strike looks fine though. weird.
thx for all the tips so far.
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hey everyone,
been a while since i posted.
i just did some testing with and without aero theme, street fighter IV windowed.
with aero theme = frameskip every couple of seconds (at really odd and slow intervals), most visible during camera movements
without aero = no problems.
i will now test FBA and see if i can feel any improvement.
edit: just tested FBA, both windowed and fullscreen, with and without vsynch and triple buffering. no improvement at all =(
edit2: by the way, i experience this the strongest when playing jojo's bizarre adventure (CPSIII). third strike looks fine though. weird.
thx for all the tips so far.
Hi there :)
Try Running D3DOverrider and check that the global option is like this...
(http://jezeronline.com/img/snap004.png)
then minimize D3dOverrider (dont click the X button) and launch FB Alpha and use this option
(http://jezeronline.com/img/snap005.png)
You should notice the difference now in windowed mode using any kind of desktop theme :)
SeeYaa!
:biggrin:
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I use D3D Overrider too.
If D3DO already forces triple buffering and VSync, do those options need to be enabled in FBA as well? Wouldn't there be a conflict or slowdown with both doing the same thing?
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I use D3D Overrider too.
If D3DO already forces triple buffering and VSync, do those options need to be enabled in FBA as well? Wouldn't there be a conflict or slowdown with both doing the same thing?
D3DOverrider force DirectX to use Triple Buffer / Vsync, but FB Alpha just send the instruction to DirectX and expect it to to use Triple Buffer / Vsync. FB Alpha doesn't have a code implemented to force DirectX. I will keep looking for information about this matter in my free time, and if there is something that can be done to force DirectX in FBA I will try to check it out :smilie:
SeeYaa!
:biggrin:
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hi everyone,
thanks a lot for all the help so far.
v-synch and triple buffering aren't really related to my problem, since fba works just fine without those under XP (i also don't want to activate them because im playing frame-critical games).
a friend suggested that i run frametimes with FRAPS for win7 and xp and post them here. quite a discrepancy, and odd numbers under win7:
Frame, Time (ms)
1, 0.000
2, 10.525
3, 20.285
4, 41.775
5, 63.307
6, 73.029
7, 90.623
8, 112.093
9, 121.850
10, 143.350
11, 164.837
12, 174.583
13, 184.403
14, 203.903
15, 213.662
16, 235.144
17, 256.650
18, 266.559
19, 283.967
20, 305.451
XP:
Frame, Time (ms)
1, 0.000
2, 13.685
3, 29.309
4, 44.944
5, 76.390
6, 78.678
7, 91.829
8, 123.087
9, 138.709
10, 154.298
11, 169.928
12, 185.579
13, 201.169
14, 216.812
15, 232.422
16, 248.055
17, 263.678
18, 279.327
19, 294.929
20, 326.180
hope that helps.
cheers,
ATG
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hi everyone,
thanks a lot for all the help so far.
v-synch and triple buffering aren't really related to my problem, since fba works just fine without those under XP (i also don't want to activate them because im playing frame-critical games).
a friend suggested that i run frametimes with FRAPS for win7 and xp and post them here. quite a discrepancy, and odd numbers under win7:
Frame, Time (ms)
1, 0.000
2, 10.525
3, 20.285
4, 41.775
5, 63.307
6, 73.029
7, 90.623
8, 112.093
9, 121.850
10, 143.350
11, 164.837
12, 174.583
13, 184.403
14, 203.903
15, 213.662
16, 235.144
17, 256.650
18, 266.559
19, 283.967
20, 305.451
XP:
Frame, Time (ms)
1, 0.000
2, 13.685
3, 29.309
4, 44.944
5, 76.390
6, 78.678
7, 91.829
8, 123.087
9, 138.709
10, 154.298
11, 169.928
12, 185.579
13, 201.169
14, 216.812
15, 232.422
16, 248.055
17, 263.678
18, 279.327
19, 294.929
20, 326.180
hope that helps.
cheers,
ATG
I did a very specific research on the issue and since I have Win7 / x64 I was having the same issues you mention about frameskip or to be more precise vertical synch, I implemented a very effective method for doing Vsync while in Windowed mode that doesn't compromise FBA speed at all, what it does is increase of displayed frames to a 100% by waiting for all of the vertical scanlines to be dispayed, so no 'flickering' is noticed when the Vsync option is active. I have to make clear that Triple Buffer / Page Flipping is specifically made for fullscreen so you will not need to activate it to see results in next FBA release, in fact you will never see results of Triple Buffer in widowed mode on any FBA version, only fullscreen.
Btw, you can't say Vsync isn't related to your problem until you test next version and see if Vsync does any difference. After FBA next version is released, if you still have issues with the new Vsync option then obviously your problem will prove to be PC specific, since I have Win7 as you and even have an Intel x64 Dual Core CPU, and after I implemented the new Vsync method to all blitters I could notice a big increase of precision of frame displaying, its not even a 80% increase, I say its a 100% accurate frame display since it wait for each vertical scanline to be drawn on screen to proceed with next frame and so on.
SeeYaa!
:biggrin:
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thx for the detailed answer,
i will do some more extensive testing once the new FBA version is out, then.
as far as i know, v-synch adds a frame of input lag, though?
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thx for the detailed answer,
i will do some more extensive testing once the new FBA version is out, then.
as far as i know, v-synch adds a frame of input lag, though?
Since the way I implemented it was not hard-coded Vsync, but proper waiting of vertical scanlines synchronization it will never put the application itself on hold, or cause other devices to stop working while vsync is active. In some other application or games where Vsync is implemented in a hard-coded way it may cause these input issues because is putting the application itself on hold while vsync is used.
So far I haven't noticed any kind of input lag, and honestly I haven't tested it playing online but it shouldn't cause any problems. :)
SeeYaa!
:biggrin:
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hey there,
tested the newest version today.
all tests used enhanced blitter and full screen, no effects, only rotate scanlines (not that it matters)
1. v-synch, frameskip
2. frameskip only
3. nothing
4. v-synch only
unfortunately, the frametimes didn't show any improvement at all. 1000/60 = 16.667, so a frame should be drawn every 16.667 ms, and those are totally off =(
it's much better under XP, closer to 16.6 (still not perfect, but very close).
http://rapidshare.com/files/357428551/20100301_frametimes_for_fba029708___CPSIII.rar.html (http://rapidshare.com/files/357428551/20100301_frametimes_for_fba029708___CPSIII.rar.html)
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I don't think the new version with the vsynch fix has been released yet, unless I missed it.
<edit> Yep, I missed it, sorry.
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i'm still waiting for some feedback here =(
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i'm still waiting for some feedback here =(
I'm sorry about not posting a solution for your problem but it seems very rare, since I could fix it with Vsync in my case. It seems that your problem is PC specific. But if I find some kind of possible solution I will let you know man! ;)
Take Care!
SeeYaa!
:biggrin:
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so your frame times aren't off, like mine are?
a lot of people i talked to in the fighting game scene seem to have the same problem as me, i guess almost nobody notices it or something :(
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can you please fix this bug? it's really annoying.. especially when playing online
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hi guys, I read through all this post and I'm having the same same anonying problems that everyone here has. What versions of FBA are you using? I want to fix this for GGPO and the GGPO version of FBA is 0.296.74.
The newest stable release however is 0.297.08. This version however isn't integrated with GGPO, so you can't simply download and rename the GGPOFBA exe. Is there a way to integrate it?
In the version history, there is only one mention of Windows 7:
- Added support for Vista, Server 2008 and Windows 7 detection to the System Info dialog [Barry]
They also mention:
Added a few small speedups
- Only recalculate the whole palette when needed now rather than every frame [iq_132]
Clear all video buffers in one loop [iq_132]
Anyone actually managed to fix this frame sh** or not? I think i'll just use a separate XP machine plugged into my monitor to play instead. :S
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Okay so it seems to me like this definitely works!
I'm running it is DX9 mode, full screen mode, v-sync on with desktop and full screen resolutions set at 1280 x 800.
Hi there AtTheGates, I have Win7 (x64) and I experience the strange frameskip in windowed mode as well, I always disable Auto Frameskip so its supposed to run at 60fps. The problem seems to be with high resolutions, normally I use 1680 x 1050 [32bit][60hz] and I could notice the issue, but when I lowered the desktop resolution a bit just to see what happened, the frame skipping went away, and if its there is not noticed. At least this is a temporary workaround until the real problem can be identified under Win7
Another thing you could try if the problem persist is using the DirectX9 Experimental Blitter and see if this show improvements.
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hey everyone,
been a while since i last checked in - i will try running a lower desktop resolution, thx for the tip!
edit:
i can CONFIRM that the frameskip is lessened or removed by using experimental blitter and fullscreen regardless of the resolution. windowed still frameskips like hell.
every easy way to test for frameskip is by running jojo's bizarre adventure, and looking at the panning background in the char / mode select screen. more fancy way would of course be to take frametimes with fraps (which i havent done yet).
edit2:
frametimes: http://rapidshare.com/files/412605785/ggpofba_2010-08-13_00-52-40-95_frametimes.csv.html
a lot better than last time.
edit3:
great, experimental blitter keeps freezing up fba when i play via ggpo, only way to fix it is to go back to windowed and back to fullscreen -> unplayable.
guess we need a real fix after all, the workaround isnt good enough =(
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Any answers on this? Win7 x64 here. FBA is still framey and experimental blitter isn't reliable.
specs, if it matters:
intel c2d e8400
8gb ram
radeon 5850
on a gigabyte ep35-ds3l mobo.
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Well... is maybe a CPU issue here... I've seen sometimes quad-core systems that got problems with some siingle core apps... maybe this can work for you, you can either:
1.- Try setting CPU affinity in task managger for FBA, use only 1 core and see its effects.
or
2.- Open msconfig, go to boot tab, then click on advanced options, and set the number of cores you have, for example, in your case, you set 4 CPU's, then reboot.
See if this can help you.
See ya!!! :D
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I dunno what you guys are saying. We all have similar systems and DX9 works well for me. I got a i920 CPU which has 8 cores and the ATI x4870. Runs the same windowed for me as full screen.
My ggpofba.ini:
// FB Alpha v0.2.96.74 --- Main Config File
// Don't edit this file manually unless you know what you're doing
// FB Alpha will restore default settings when this file is deleted
// The application version this file was saved from
nIniVersion 0x029674
// --- emulation --------------------------------------------------------------
// If non-zero, use A68K for MC68000 emulation
bBurnUseASMCPUEmulation 1
// --- Video ------------------------------------------------------------------
// The display mode to use for fullscreen
nVidWidth 1280
nVidHeight 800
nVidDepth 32
// Specify the refresh rate, 0 = default (changing this will not work with many video cards)
nVidRefresh 0
// If non-zero, use the same fullscreen resolution as the original arcade game
bVidArcaderes 0
// If non-zero, do not rotate the graphics for vertical games
nVidRotationAdjust 1
// The preset resolutions appearing in the menu
VidPreset[0].nWidth 400
VidPreset[0].nHeight 300
VidPreset[1].nWidth 640
VidPreset[1].nHeight 480
VidPreset[2].nWidth 1024
VidPreset[2].nHeight 768
VidPreset[3].nWidth 1280
VidPreset[3].nHeight 960
// Full-screen size (0 = use display mode variables)
nScreenSize 0
// Initial window size (0 = autosize)
nWindowSize 9999
// Window position
nWindowPosX 157
nWindowPosY 0
// If non-zero, perform gamma correction
bDoGamma 0
// If non-zero, use the video hardware to correct gamma
bVidUseHardwareGamma 1
// If non-zero, don't fall back on software gamma correction
bHardwareGammaOnly 1
// Gamma to correct with
nGamma 1.250000
// If non-zero, allow stretching of the image to any size
bVidFullStretch 0
// If non-zero, stretch the image to the largest size preserving aspect ratio
bVidCorrectAspect 1
// If non-zero, try to use a triple buffer in fullscreen
bVidTripleBuffer 1
// If non-zero, try to synchronise blits with the display
bVidVSync 1
// Transfer method: 0 = blit from system memory / use driver/DirectX texture management;
// 1 = copy to a video memory surface, then use bltfast();
// -1 = autodetect for DirectDraw, equals 1 for Direct3D
nVidTransferMethod -1
// If non-zero, draw scanlines to simulate a low-res monitor
bVidScanlines 0
// Maximum scanline intensity
nVidScanIntensity 12566463
// If non-zero, rotate scanlines and RGB effects for rotated games
bVidScanRotate 1
// The selected blitter module
nVidSelect 3
// Options for the blitter modules
nVidBlitterOpt[0] 0
nVidBlitterOpt[1] 1877934079
nVidBlitterOpt[2] 10
nVidBlitterOpt[3] 1090519040
// The aspect ratio of the monitor
nVidScrnAspectX 16
nVidScrnAspectY 10
// If non-zero, force all games to use a 60Hz refresh rate
bForce60Hz 1
// If non-zero, skip frames when needed to keep the emulation running at full speed
bAlwaysDrawFrames 1
// If non-zero, use a placeholder image when no game is loaded
bVidUsePlaceholder 0
// The filename of the placeholder image to use (empty filename = use built-in)
szPlaceHolder
// --- DirectDraw blitter module settings -------------------------------------
// If non-zero, draw scanlines at 50% intensity
bVidScanHalf 1
// --- Direct3D 7 blitter module settings -------------------------------------
// If non-zero, use bi-linear filtering to display the image
bVidBilinear 1
// If non-zero, simulate slow phosphors (feedback)
bVidScanDelay 0
// If non-zero, use bi-linear filtering for the scanlines
bVidScanBilinear 1
// Feedback amount for slow phosphor simulation
nVidFeedbackIntensity 64
// Oversaturation amount for slow phosphor simulation
nVidFeedbackOverSaturation 0
// Angle at wich the emulated screen is tilted (in radians)
fVidScreenAngle 0.174533
// Angle of the sphere segment used for the 3D screen (in radians)
fVidScreenCurvature 0.698132
// If non-zero, force 16 bit emulation even in 32-bit screenmodes
bVidForce16bit 0
// --- DirectX Graphics 9 blitter module settings -----------------------------
// The filter parameters for the cubic filter
dVidCubicB 0.000000
dVidCubicC 1.000000
// --- Sound ------------------------------------------------------------------
// Sample rate
nAudSampleRate 48000
// Number of frames in sound buffer (= sound lag)
nAudSegCount 6
// DSP module to use for sound enhancement: 0 = none, 1 = low-pass filter
nAudDSPModule 0
// The order of PCM/ADPCM interpolation
nInterpolation 3
// The order of FM interpolation
nFMInterpolation 0
// --- UI ---------------------------------------------------------------------
// Filename of the active UI translation template
szLocalisationTemplate
// 1 = display pause/record/replay/kaillera icons in the upper right corner of the display
nVidSDisplayStatus 1
// Minimum height (in pixels) of the font used for the Kaillera chat function (used for arcade resolution)
nMinChatFontSize 12
// Maximum height (in pixels) of the font used for the Kaillera chat function (used for 1280x960 or higher).
nMaxChatFontSize 36
// Make the menu modeless
bModelessMenu 1
// Minimum length of time to display the splash screen (in milliseconds)
nSplashTime 1500
// If non-zero, load and save all ram (the state)
bDrvSaveAll 0
// The thread priority for the application. Do *NOT* edit this manually
nAppThreadPriority 0
// If non-zero, process keyboard input even when the application loses focus
bAlwaysProcessKeyboardInput 0
// If non-zero, pause when the application loses focus
bAutoPause 1
// If non-zero, save the inputs for each game
bSaveInputs 1
// --- Load Game Dialog -------------------------------------------------------
// Load game dialog options
nLoadMenuShowX 327680
// The paths to search for rom zips (include trailing backslash)
szAppRomPaths[0]
szAppRomPaths[1]
szAppRomPaths[2]
szAppRomPaths[3]
szAppRomPaths[4]
szAppRomPaths[5]
szAppRomPaths[6]
szAppRomPaths[7] roms\
// --- ggpo settings ---------------------------------------------------------
nLatencySmoothing 1
// --- miscellaneous ---------------------------------------------------------
// Player default controls, number is the index of the configuration in the input dialog
nPlayerDefaultControls[0] 0
szPlayerDefaultIni[0]
nPlayerDefaultControls[1] 1
szPlayerDefaultIni[1]
nPlayerDefaultControls[2] 2
szPlayerDefaultIni[2]
nPlayerDefaultControls[3] 3
szPlayerDefaultIni[3]
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OK guys, I have good news, after coming from work I took some time to do some extensive investigation of the FBA frame handling code on Windows XP (since is the one I am using temporary until I can replace a burned memory xD) and made a few test builds. After examining the results on Windows XP I found out how to efectively make the Auto-Frameskip function to limit the frameskip to 0. This means that if for any reason the Auto-Frameskip function wanna do some weird frame skipping, it will now be limited to 0 frameskip.
After testing on Windows XP, I switched to my other boot hdd and loaded Windows 7 (x64). I tested FBA using all the Aero Theme features, Windowed Mode, with only Auto-Frameskip option active and it worked like a charm :smilie:, there were no frames dropped. Since I didn't have the Vsync active the vertical lines were not syncronized, so I turned it on and everything went smooth :smilie:.
I just need to modify the old conditioning option to the new modification and everything should be fine, after finishing this the Autoframeskip option, when enabled will Drop frames per second as needed, and when deactivated will never drop a frame, but of course if the CPU / Video Card have issues it will display the frames as fast as your computer can.
When I finish working on this (I need to sleep now xD) I will post a test binary, using the last released source by Barry 'only' with the Autoframeskip changes for testing purposes. If everything works well after the tests, then it will be integrated in the next official release of FBA :smilie:.
Note: Source code changes will be officially available on the next official release (FBA Dev Team colleagues will have access to the modified code ASAP).
SeeYaa!
:biggrin:
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FBA and Windows 7 Frameskip / Stuttering (Update)
Recently I made a research of information and started doing lot of testing and found out that the Windows 7 problem is not FB Alpha problem.
It is a problem with the Desktop Window Manager Service (DWM), this service functions are located at DWMAPI.DLL and use functions from USER32.DLL and probably others. This DLL can be found only on Windows 7 operative system at the "System32\" directory and "SysWOW64\" respectively.
The DWM handle many drawing procedures for Windows 7 advanced UI system, and the Aero Themes depend on this service. So basically we cannot disable this service to solve the Frame Skipping / Stuttering problem.
After learning about all this I created a module on FB Alpha that will do the following:
- Detect Windows 7 (will specifically detect if running Windows 7)
- If Windows 7 is detected, Load "dwmapi.dll" handle, and import all needed functions.
- Set the FB Apha specific window parameters for DWM.
This will make DWM handle the FBA window without problems, and there is no more frame-skipping / stuttering.
This new module I created will consist of two main source files that should be on "src\burner\win32\" :
- dwmapi_core.cpp
- dwmapi_core.h
Files that will need to be modified at the FBA source will be:
- run.cpp
- burner_win32.h
At this moment I am trying to solve a problem with the FBA menu, because the menu / toolbar and its buttons are located on the main window Client Area, and DirectX uses the main window Client Area it will become completely black anytime DirectX is handling the main window Client Area. DWM displays the DirectX surface rectangle on top of anything drawn in the main window Client Area, so that means GDI drawing on the main Client Area while DirectX is using it will be problematic.
I am working on a solution and a improvement of FBA that will allow it to work as a MDI application, and instead of using the main window Client Area, use a Child Window client area to display DirectX graphics, this should solve the long standing problem with the menu and allow new UI features in the future.
So basically, if you didn't understand all the previous stuff, what it means is that the Frameskip / Stuttering problem has been solved :biggrin: and FB Alpha is now working smoothly on Windows 7. There is a problem with the main menu but "should" be solved soon.
SeeYaa!
:biggrin:
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Is the autoframeskip malfunction that you discovered real?
I'm asking because i've always feeled something weird also with autoframeskip off, especially in ssf2t ( also on xp -> http://neo-source.com/index.php?topic=1457.0 )
I hope that both fixes take FBA to the next level ;)
thank you for your great effort!
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great news CaptainCPS-X
thanks for looking into this issue
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As Cap is adressing, the issue comes from DWM handling, but somehow, it affects other OSes, just because of DirectX 9c new handlers in the new or most modern GPU's (by modern, I talk about Geforce 7200 GT or greater GPU's and equivalents on ATI hardware).
What FBA is currently doing now, is creating a new window excluvely for video rendering (some sort of MDI, but with the whole interface), then, it can process every video instruction is set for it, and finally, enabling compatibility with DWM composition (this last just for Windows 7 or Vista).
In XP case, we got to adress whenever it is a DirectX issue (maybe enabling some sort of composition for XP) or maybe a multicore issue... remember that FBA cannot handle MORE than 1 core at once... but that is NOT an aplication issue, but a WINDOWS... XP is older than multicore technology, and even with the latest SP (currently on SP3... and I HIGHLY recommend to upgrading to it if you are not) XP is having issues handling the cores and distributing tasks for each core in a more efficent way, even is it's a dual core chip... Some people will be happy, this doesn't affect HT technology (Intel) because they are LOGICAL cores instead of physical, so, is like they were tied, no matter how independandly they work (I worked with HT long time, I know what I say XD)
Even, when I was on MUGEN stuff, there were issues in the engine, just because of that, the mos significant, the FPS counter not working and always showing 0 frames, while the engine was working properly.
You may try a fix for dual core issues, I'll try to find that info again and post here, and see if you people still get FPS problems on XP.
Cap is still working on this, so don't worry, you know that whenever he get his hands on this, it works XD
See ya!!! :D
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Files that will need to be modified at the FBA source will be:
- run.cpp
- burner_win32.h
Hihi, how can I do this for the ggpo client?
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Hi AtTheGates & CaptainCPS-X - any idea on how I can implement the run.cpp and burner_win32.h for the ggpo client please?
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I used to feel frameskip on fba,now this configuration will solve the problem for me.
You can try to config your fba like this:
(http://img181.poco.cn/mypoco/myphoto/20110514/23/5671290120110514235740052.jpg)
(http://img181.poco.cn/mypoco/myphoto/20110515/00/5671290120110515000238017.jpg)
(http://img181.poco.cn/mypoco/myphoto/20110515/00/5671290120110515000224059.jpg)
My PC:
Intel E7300 266*10
ASUS P5Q
GEIL 2G DDR2 800 * 2
ZOTAC GTS 250 512M GDDR3 256BIT
Windows 7 SP1 X64
Hope this will do some help!
See ya! :biggrin:
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@ mawen: vsynch is a different thing alltogether and adds another frame of lag, this is not the right solution for the problem i'm afraid, although it does help with other problems.
@ fba devs: is the fix implemented yet? if so, in which version, and where can i get it?
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Lol....this is easy. Win7 and Vista use the d3d10/11 dll's as opposed to the REAL DX9 dll's (sxs paths make sure of this) Just type d3dx9_43 in the run/search bar in start and use winrar(or other) to extract the x86 cab ver(important as FBA is single threaded) and move the d3dx9_43.dll DIRECTLY into the FBA folder. I can run at 1600x1200 with frameskip off and no vsync and get a SOLID 300+fps with most blitters (proc locked at 100% on purpose to keep FrmRte steady).
this msg is for At_the_Gates. I know about timing man, I used to be a regional SF champ a very long time ago :biggrin: Hope this helps.
ZOUT.
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thanks for the tips original Z,
i tried putting 2 different versiont of d3dx9_43 into the fba folder (which version, btw? i guess it should work with most), and so far no change to the micro stutter. a good way to see it is if you run jojo's bizarre adventure and check the story / challenge mode selection and watch the background, which should pan smoothly (which it doesnt half of the time). also, i guess putting the "raw" d3dx9_43.dll into the folder should be ok, right? no cabs to extract for me on my system, i did have the dll in my system32 folder though and tried this version as well as a more up to date one. also, the framerate isn't really the problem if i understood the developer's explanation correctly, since this appears to be something that happens "after" the framerate, in the way in which the display is handled (or something?).
cheers,
atg
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sorry for bumping such and old topic, but im having the same problem aswell.
i used ggpo for 2 years without any problem, then i bought a new monitor (same pc still) and the stuttering started. at first i thought it was something related to the resolution (old monitor was 1440x900, new one is full hd), but even when i lower the resolution the stuttering continues, its very odd. and if i use the old monitor everything works just fine.
i tried everything in this thread but nothing worked. any new solutions?