Author Topic: Capcom Home Arcade stick using FB Alpha Emulation  (Read 8303 times)

Offline Haze

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Re: Capcom Home Arcade stick using FB Alpha Emulation
« Reply #120 on: May 01, 2019, 07:10:13 AM »
Going the LibRetro way is only going to make the problem worse and further annoy those who contributed under 'no commercial' licenses, as things like RetroArch basically provides a way for any scummy company to bypass the license requirement by using the 'core downloader' (which probably wouldn't stand up in a court of law on a locked down box, as it's still integral to the product, but all the chinese bootleggers can get away with it because their systems are 'open')

LibRetro based frontends (RA etc.) are making no effort to show the user the emulation licenses when they get the emulators / run the cores, despite the cores being under different licenses to LR/RA, meaning a lot of people then claim ignorance of the situation because the conditions have never been communicated.  The maintainers are acting in highly irresponsible and complicit ways when it comes to this, ways which are harmful to the emulation scene in general. RA at targets mass appeal *at any cost* which is a problem.

LR also makes it easy for anybody to make an ad-driven 'portal' frontend, and again claim they're not going against the wishes of anybody (this happens a fair bit on mobile)

LR also brings projects closer to things like Kodi (due to Kodi LR loader plugins) and Kodi already has a terrible reputation for being abused commercially in order to sell pirate TV boxes etc. (to the point where boxes etc. get seized, analyzed, legal action taken against plugin developers etc.)  Making it easier to add emulators to these 'all in one' boxes only brings further unwanted attention.

If anything projects would do best to kill off LR support / leave it up to the LR project maintainers, not invest further into it.  I've said elsewhere, LR is parasitic and mainly enables unwanted business models, and I stand by that.

Simply changing FBA to a libretro project would strip if of all identity, and take away the ability to provide the user experience you want as well, making more advanced features more difficult to implement as everything has to fit the 'dumbed down' model they present.

Maybe that's not what they intended when they came up with the concept of 'emulators as libraries' but it was very predictable, and is exactly what has happened.  I still think it's the single worst thing to happen in the 20 years I've been involved in emulation.  I get that it is 'convenient' but that comes at the cost of far too many negatives.  (and this doesn't even cover the technical negatives, only the social / economic ones)

Beyond even that, the core maintainers for LR cores explicitly ignore the wishes of the developers of the emulators they're including.  The RA devs act like they're the saviours and defenders of the scene, but as soon as we say 'please show the emulation imperfection warnings' or 'please show the license on startup (especially for older cores that are non commercial)' they try to strong-arm MAMEdev into having an official RA core, telling us to add them ourselves if we want them and coming up with a whole bunch of technical BS about why they can't show them rather than simply respecting the wishes of the developers.  My experience, and everything to do with them, and LR based projects is overwhelmingly negative, I have more respect for Barry, and after all this that is saying something.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2019, 12:27:52 PM by Haze »
Fuck this place.  Please delete my account here.

Offline barbudreadmon

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Re: Capcom Home Arcade stick using FB Alpha Emulation
« Reply #121 on: May 01, 2019, 07:48:04 AM »
1. Having the libretro fork as the main repo is not gonna happen, i wouldn't recommend it myself
2. Haze, i think you are a bit harsh here, while i know you are at odds with LR for their MAME cores (and i don't want to be involved in this shit, because the only times i use MAME is with a custom build of the standalone version including only a few drivers), and i agree that libretro should show the license explicitly when using the online updater (imho it was never developped but they wouldn't be against it, after all they have been denouncing all kinds of license abuse over the years, so feel free to contribute), i don't think i ever ignored authors opinions in the cores i maintain.

Offline Robert

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Re: Capcom Home Arcade stick using FB Alpha Emulation
« Reply #122 on: May 01, 2019, 08:19:46 AM »
I was thinking about listing what needs to be done to resolve the situation, and some things imo need to be done urgently, but it's really up to the devs. I've noticed that 2 dislike what's happened, and 1 likes it. However none of them have expressed a desire to do anything, so I think all this talk from everybody else is just a lot of hot air.

IF, and only if, the development team asks for ideas or help to clean up what's happened, then I'm prepared to offer suggestions. But (and correct me if I'm wrong), they seem content to leave things as they are.

kev

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Re: Capcom Home Arcade stick using FB Alpha Emulation
« Reply #123 on: May 01, 2019, 10:46:00 AM »
I've noticed that 2 dislike what's happened, and 1 likes it.

None of us like it. At all.

grant2258

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Re: Capcom Home Arcade stick using FB Alpha Emulation
« Reply #124 on: May 01, 2019, 11:50:48 AM »
Although i put a lot of work into mame2003-plus on libretro i have to agree with haze. Emulation would be in a real mess if i lost stand alone emulators as libretro has many limitations and when it cant be handled its ripped out. It ok for a general platform like a raspberry pi if you have decent hardware you wouldnt really doing yourself and favors not using standalone. 

Offline dink

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Re: Capcom Home Arcade stick using FB Alpha Emulation
« Reply #125 on: May 01, 2019, 07:26:45 PM »
To clarify: at first I was all about for the capcom thing, because I didn't realize how entirely frigg'd up things were and were about to get.  My feelings/opinion on the situation is the same as Kev and iq_132 for quite a while now.


Offline Gab75

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Re: Capcom Home Arcade stick using FB Alpha Emulation
« Reply #126 on: May 02, 2019, 01:32:55 AM »
I was thinking about a new "fork" for Final Burn, I don't know if this can be a good idea, in any case: what do you think about "Final Burn Phoenix" or "Final Burn Phoenix Edition" ? In the Greek mythology the phoenix obtains new life by arising from the ashes of its predecessor. in the Final Burn this can symbolize a "new life", a "new beginning", a "rebirth"...

Offline barbudreadmon

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Re: Capcom Home Arcade stick using FB Alpha Emulation
« Reply #127 on: May 02, 2019, 05:55:52 AM »
I liked FB Zero, but i think FB Phoenix is my new favorite since it's also a reference to restored CPS-2 cabinets, it really makes sense with the current situation in many ways.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2019, 06:03:56 AM by barbudreadmon »

Offline Tatsuya79

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Re: Capcom Home Arcade stick using FB Alpha Emulation
« Reply #128 on: May 02, 2019, 08:14:06 AM »
Blabla
My experience, and everything to do with them, and LR based projects is overwhelmingly negative, I have more respect for Barry, and after all this that is saying something.

That is throwing a lot of dirt around which has nothing to do with the subject here.
FBA libretro is awesome, it's fast, runs on many platforms, can be used with run ahead and many other features.

Offline Ryvius86

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Re: Capcom Home Arcade stick using FB Alpha Emulation
« Reply #129 on: May 02, 2019, 08:47:39 AM »
I was thinking FB Alpha Zero.. But that's only a couple of steps from Super Final Burn Alpha Zero: The Hyper Anniversary Edition.

FB Zero rolls off the tongue nicely though.

Offline Gab75

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Re: Capcom Home Arcade stick using FB Alpha Emulation
« Reply #130 on: May 02, 2019, 09:15:41 AM »
... it really makes sense with the current situation in many ways.

Yes, IMHO Final Burn Phoenix gives the idea of a "new dawn" ! ;)

Offline dink

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Re: Capcom Home Arcade stick using FB Alpha Emulation
« Reply #131 on: May 02, 2019, 09:24:24 AM »
FBAlpha - Turkey Lasagna Edition.  anyone? :)


Offline Gab75

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Re: Capcom Home Arcade stick using FB Alpha Emulation
« Reply #132 on: May 02, 2019, 10:35:25 AM »
... and FBAlpha - Eggplant Parmesan Edition for Vegetarians! :P

Offline Bad Dude

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Re: Capcom Home Arcade stick using FB Alpha Emulation
« Reply #133 on: May 02, 2019, 01:09:20 PM »
FBAlpha - Turkey Lasagna Edition.  anyone? :)


grant2258

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Re: Capcom Home Arcade stick using FB Alpha Emulation
« Reply #134 on: May 02, 2019, 02:59:41 PM »
That is throwing a lot of dirt around which has nothing to do with the subject here.
FBA libretro is awesome, it's fast, runs on many platforms, can be used with run ahead and many other features.

what many other features ?