Author Topic: Capcom Home Arcade stick using FB Alpha Emulation  (Read 8605 times)

Offline hap

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Re: Capcom Home Arcade stick using FB Alpha Emulation
« Reply #45 on: April 21, 2019, 08:16:02 AM »
Yup, the current version of Musashi can be sold. The version used in FBA can not. My point in the 1st half of my forum post is that if you apply that (wrong)logic to all of FBA source code taken from other projects, you need to include Jarek's YM2151 as well. That one is currently GPL and means that FBA would need to be GPL as well(which it clearly isn't).

grant2258

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Re: Capcom Home Arcade stick using FB Alpha Emulation
« Reply #46 on: April 21, 2019, 09:16:04 AM »
its only wrong if they didnt update it to the latest version and that could be argued with the ym2151 as well. They could say it taken from the latest mame source and reworked since its free for commercial use. So either way it a lawyers dream or anyone looking to point fingers and be right.

Licence agreement  isint clear cut and you only have one case scenario to suit your needs not the facts. Have you seen the agreement and source code.

I would love not to debate this its the same ole same ill just leave it like i have from the start that i personally feel for the team. About the rest well you have to have clear facts and what source is being used and what source has been modified before posting claims of fact.

Offline hap

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Re: Capcom Home Arcade stick using FB Alpha Emulation
« Reply #47 on: April 21, 2019, 09:25:25 AM »
You're right, we haven't seen the license agreement. Perhaps Barry rewrote half of FBA for this occasion(farfetched). Perhaps he did ask around and received permission from all copyright holders. But with FBA devs right in this forum saying they didn't receive any information beforehand, and iq_132 saying he would not have given permission, it doesn't look good.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2019, 09:48:12 AM by hap »

Offline Gab75

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Re: Capcom Home Arcade stick using FB Alpha Emulation
« Reply #48 on: April 21, 2019, 01:48:43 PM »
Legal or illegal, lawful or unlawful, right or wrong... in any case (IMHO) Barry, with his silence, does not look good!

Offline Haze

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Re: Capcom Home Arcade stick using FB Alpha Emulation
« Reply #49 on: April 21, 2019, 06:13:11 PM »
yeah that really is the biggest issue here.

the first ANYBODY seems to have heard of this is the announcement.

suppose Barry did rewrite all of this, you'd start by working out what you actually needed to rewrite and what you could get permission for, that would involve talking to people.

you'd at the very least let your team know your intentions (especially if the plan was the re-license the project going forward) so that they could choose to rewrite / remove their code in preparation (because even if all those parts have been rewritten, they can't be merged back into the rest of FBA which is inherently incompatible right now, so even just calling that version FBA is a misnomer)

you'd also at least let the rest of your team know, so that when these questions inevitably came up they would have answers, instead of it being a complete surprise to them.  all this discussion should have happened months ago, not after an announcement with Barry going into hiding.

it's surprising, because I really thought Barry had a far better grasp on these things, and I had a lot of respect for him, but this is at the very least a complete PR disaster.

apparently they've rewritten some of the text to not mention FBA now, but I wonder what the chances are that as soon as somebody hacks one (which is basically guaranteed) they still find it's FBA derived anyway.


« Last Edit: April 21, 2019, 06:14:24 PM by Haze »
Fuck this place.  Please delete my account here.

Offline Robert

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Re: Capcom Home Arcade stick using FB Alpha Emulation
« Reply #50 on: April 21, 2019, 08:30:56 PM »
The site still mentions FB Alpha as it has always done.
Quote
The 16 pre-installed games are from the original Capcom CPS1 and CPS2 arcade ROMs with emulation provided by FB Alpha, delivering an authentic & accurate arcade experience exclusively for the Capcom Home Arcade.

I'm not exactly one to talk about licenses and whatnot, but with the project lead going rogue, and breaking his own rules, it puts the entire project into legal limbo. It no longer has a leg to stand on when the Chinese derivatives do whatever they like. Not only that, but with Barry no longer around, you won't be able to make any more official releases. Legally, this project has nowhere to go, except by doing what MAME did (as Haze has explained).

However, I know that some people do not care about licenses and unenforceable legalities, and would like to continue on regardless, just like the bootleggers do. I wish you all the luck with that.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2019, 08:35:24 PM by Robert »

Offline 7zxkv

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Re: Capcom Home Arcade stick using FB Alpha Emulation
« Reply #51 on: April 22, 2019, 05:10:16 AM »
I'm not sure I understand everything perfectly (language) but unfortunately fba is looted just like mame for ages, the real difference (and what shock me most here) is the lack of barry's response. I hope all this has a clear explanation.
All the best to every one.

Offline barbudreadmon

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Re: Capcom Home Arcade stick using FB Alpha Emulation
« Reply #52 on: April 22, 2019, 05:54:53 AM »
apparently they've rewritten some of the text to not mention FBA now, but I wonder what the chances are that as soon as somebody hacks one (which is basically guaranteed) they still find it's FBA derived anyway.
FB Alpha is still mentioned at http://www.capcomhomearcade.com/home

Offline Haze

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Re: Capcom Home Arcade stick using FB Alpha Emulation
« Reply #53 on: April 22, 2019, 06:03:37 AM »
FB Alpha is still mentioned at http://www.capcomhomearcade.com/home

indeed it is, looks like the text might have gone through a few revisions?  at least elsewhere it was said the FBAlpha mention was removed, but now it's right there..
Fuck this place.  Please delete my account here.

Offline Bad Dude

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Re: Capcom Home Arcade stick using FB Alpha Emulation
« Reply #54 on: April 22, 2019, 10:02:38 AM »
I love the old CAPCOM classic games, but they did not respect the programmers when they released this product. The rule is clear:
FBA is not marketable, including all codes and effort made by programmers (dink, iq and so on), including the MAME devs.
They can not do this!  :mad:
« Last Edit: April 22, 2019, 10:03:45 AM by Bad Dude »

Offline lantus

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Re: Capcom Home Arcade stick using FB Alpha Emulation
« Reply #55 on: April 22, 2019, 10:21:03 AM »
indeed it is, looks like the text might have gone through a few revisions?  at least elsewhere it was said the FBAlpha mention was removed, but now it's right there..

the site seemed like it was undergoing maintenance for about 8 hours on Thursday last week , but i confirmed the wording regarding FB Alpha has not changed

Offline hap

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Re: Capcom Home Arcade stick using FB Alpha Emulation
« Reply #56 on: April 22, 2019, 10:25:55 AM »
@Bad Dude: Koch Media went by the book: they asked permission and received it from FBA's main developeradministrator.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2019, 10:56:27 AM by hap »

Offline lantus

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Re: Capcom Home Arcade stick using FB Alpha Emulation
« Reply #57 on: April 22, 2019, 10:35:19 AM »
side note : Final Burn Dave posted on my video asking if he could get in contact with any FB Alpha devs


Offline dink

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Re: Capcom Home Arcade stick using FB Alpha Emulation
« Reply #58 on: April 22, 2019, 10:56:21 AM »
lantus please direct him here, he really needs to know what is going on before agreeing to any licensing.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2019, 10:59:38 AM by dink »

Offline Haze

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Re: Capcom Home Arcade stick using FB Alpha Emulation
« Reply #59 on: April 22, 2019, 02:44:00 PM »
It also confirms that Dave wasn't asked about this too.

So yeah, that basically 100% confirms that Barry did this without any permission from anybody, not even the minimal of effort to try and look legit.

I hope Dave is aware that at this point all he can relicense is the exact code he wrote himself in the original FB too.

Since FBA is a fork, he can't directly relicense FBA, even if he were to relicense FB, you'd have to create a new fork from his version and rewrite (or gain permission for) everything that's been added on top of that including core changes, ui changes, drivers etc. (and not just copy from the existing FBA code, because that would still be under an incompatible license)

Also as hap points out, the original FB contains code not written by Dave in the first place too anyway so his relicensing options even then are limited.

Licensing is a bitch, but if you want a legitimate product you have to do it properly.

Seems nobody at all bothered to follow due process here, not Barry, not Koch Media, nobody.

The way this has been done also IMHO makes Barry's position in the project untenable.  Nobody outside of a select few is going to trust his word on licensing again, even if you do try to say you've been through the whole process.  You might want to consider a shuffle around of who maintains what (webpages, releases etc.) or the public image of the project is going to suffer.

« Last Edit: April 22, 2019, 02:57:12 PM by Haze »
Fuck this place.  Please delete my account here.